<div>Wow, seems like I missed a real doozy of a session. Conor, sorry to hear you're leaving but I can understand your frustrations and ours. I haven't been as available as before guys, sorry, Exams, sick family, sick me, but I am looking forward to the new year.
</div>
<div>I think we've all lost sight of the main idea behind this arrangement.</div>
<div>Initially we planned to play as if it was a PNP night, with the same dedication and ground rules. </div>
<div>It did go a tad pear shaped when the people who could play more, did and a lot at that. I still treat it as a PNP thing, I love the sessions where we do it slow (oh baby), and I couldn't give a rats ass about the XP or Rep, besides them being a necessary evil to advance.
</div>
<div>I don't want to log in and feel like it's a job, which is why I quit WoW, I don't like to grind. </div>
<div>It seems we all want different things so, cool, lets stay in touch. </div>
<div>Unless Sus, our friend who has promised to visit this week sometime depending on her schedule visits this evening, I can play tonight. </div>
<div>A cool trap dungeon eh? :-)) Well, I did build a trap monkey in the blissful ignorance that that would be important for the group.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Leigh.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/3/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Mike Kelly</b> <<a href="mailto:mike.j.kelly@gmail.com">mike.j.kelly@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>
<div><span class="q"><span class="gmail_quote">On 02/01/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Cliffy</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:cliffy@iol.ie" target="_blank">cliffy@iol.ie</a>
> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Explanation is fair enough.<br><br>I was absolutely ragin' to my core last night, and as far as I was/am
<br>concerned there is no point in me playing this game with ye till ye get to<br>lvl 11 or 12. Because no matter what I've done or tried to do in the last <br>few months I have constantly been in the wrong - and thats really great fun
<br>to put up with night after night after night.<br><br>I have had to defend myself repeatedly from all kind of accusations over the<br>last few months and the large number of accusations in a row last night was <br>just too much. Way too much.
</blockquote></span>
<div><br>Wow, good to know that I wasn't the only one pissed off after last night. Oh, and for the record, we moaned and complained about you racing off (actually I think that I gritted my teeth more than anything else, both myself and Diarm were pretty much silent), we didn't really accuse you of anything. But hey, while you have the tar and feathers out why not give everyone a good coating?
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Last night for example (fact from my perspective):<br>- When I logged on ye were trying to get XP, getting further ahead of Leigh,
<br>Brian and I.</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">- When I asked ye about it ye weren't trying to get xp, you were trying to <br>get rep.</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>I personally was trying to get Kundarak rep but and complete some of the level 4-6 quests we've missed on the way up. I was aware of and grateful for the fact that you also get XP when you rep grind, 1 or 2k here and there with the quests we were doing (with the bonuses for completing things the first time on hard and elite and our -20% to -40% for level difference). It's not like we were seeking out the high XP quests. I do want to advance my character, I'll be only too happy to play alts and help Leigh catch up (my 4th level cleric seems likely) but I do want to advance my main too. You said something like "Sashkia needs that quest, I'll bring her if you don't mind the XP?", I'm paraphrasing there. We said sure, I didn't particularly mind, I'd have preferred Aglaranna but hey, a level 12 cleric can always come in handy and I know that I'd much prefer to be rep grinding with my main rather than an alt so all in all it's no big deal.
<br><br>As for this being the ultimate evil or something I'd like to point out that in the past we have all both grinded rep and done new content when people were off, I remember doing so on a number of occasions when other people couldn't play and the few times that I couldn't make it everyone else has played on without me, that's why we keep coming across quests that other's have done but I haven't, or Diarm hasn't or Joe or Leigh or Brian and no doubt there are quests that we have done but you haven't and quests that you have done but we haven't. When you play through a dungeon you usually get XP, regardless of whether it's the first time through to enjoy new content or your second or third time for rep.
<br><br>You seem to be implying that we were somehow sneakily gaining XP while Brian and Leighs backs were turned, we weren't and I resent the implication.<br> </div><span class="q">
<div> <br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">- So I came on with Sashkia to make getting rep for ye easier/quicker (and<br>also because I also need house K rep with Sashkia). We did an instance I've
<br>never done with any character.</blockquote></span>
<div><br>And that is the problem in a nutshell Conor: we don't want to do it easier/quicker we want to enjoy the dungeons, at a slower pace, using something approaching tactics, particularly new content! At least I do and I suspect others do to. That dungeon "Taming the Flames" looked absolutely awesome but the whole thing was a blur to me because most of the time I was running to try keep up with you as you raced off banishing elementals left and right. On several occasions I checked the large map (to see where you'd gone to, you must have looted Mercurys boots or something because you're like a bloody greased cheetah somehow) and you were miles away, it wasn't fun, far from it. Particularly in a multi layer dungeon like that. That, I believe, is where Joes comment about it being no fun trailing after Sashkia came from. Or by saying that I don't enjoy your style of play am I accusing and victimising you again? This is very much a two way street, you feel we're attacking you (and to be fair we are critical of you as we have been of Diarm and Brian) but you seem to see yourself as completely blameless in all this. You aren't. Have you considered that maybe, just maybe we have a teensy point? That maybe you do tend to hare off trailing the rest of us behind you? Or is it more likely that we're all just against you?
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">- Then I was going to be the reason one of ye called it a night cos ye<br>weren't getting anything "out" of the night. Rather than "ask" me to switch
<br>to Aglaranna or Tryxia I got the "well with you playing Sashkia I might as<br>well log for the night" treatment. Mike to be fair asked "are you going to<br>bring on Aglaranna?", when I asked why I got the "I'm logging off if you
<br>don't" comment. </blockquote></span>
<div><br>Yep, I did, but just to make it clear the order of events was I asked if you were going to bring on Aglaranna and *then* the comment was made (and not by me). I asked mainly because I didn't think I could face another dungeon chasing after Sashkia while she blitzed low level (to her) creatures. Think about it, how much fun is it to be run through Deadmines by a level 60? The XP thing was a (I thought) transparent ruse, a reason to get rid of Sashkia because I wanted to actually do something and leave a quest with a sense of achievement, not one of bewilderment wondering where we went and why. In short I want to enjoy the experience, I was frustrated as hell at that time and was fighting to keep it out of my voice. Again Conor while we may be snappish with you, you could stand to consider us and how your actions affect our enjoyment as much as you want us to consider your enjoyment.
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">- So then ye decided that ye were actually trying to get XP, so I logged on<br>with Aglaranna. We did another instance I've never done with any character.
<br>- then I was ruining new content on Diarm by charaging off (despite doing<br>the quest for the first time myself).</blockquote></span>
<div><br>Again, we were running for Rep, but as I've said, XP is good too. <br><br>You were ruining new content by charging off on me too, it kinda kills the atmosphere when you're just legging it off the entire time just running into the middle of groups of mobs that we could be taking a lot more cleverly and cleanly, something you've berated us for at length in the past. Also, as you well know, and have told us on numerous occasions, it's a royal pain in the ass to be trying to heal someone when they're running away from you, it wastes spell points and wand charges. Or is it OK for you to do it but not OK for us?
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">- then I was playing an uber level 7 character with uber stuff and somehow<br>that was ruining things too.
</blockquote></span>
<div><br>Not for me. <br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">For the record Ag was funded by Sashkia at 2nd and 4th levels and has been <br>self sufficient ever since. I'd be reasonably sure that Odile probably has
<br>better stuff that Aglaranna - Diarm can you beat a +3 weapon and +3 plate,<br>and a +4 shield?<br><br>I fully expect I ruined the other quest that you did after I left too, <br>somehow.....</blockquote></span>
<div><br>Nope, for the next quest, we stuck together and picked them off, slaughtering them easily, it worked very well and was a load of fun, loads of traps too, they weren't so much fun but were really devious, some of the best I've seen in the game. Recommended for rogues *nudge Leigh* although I think Leigh, Diarm, Brian, yourself and I have already did Redwillow Ruins, Joe hadn't done it.
</div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">When Diarm or Brian rush off into battle its fine "cos he's playing a<br>Chaotic dwarf" or a Paladin smiting evil. when my fighter does the same I'm
<br>ruining content and playing an unbalanced overpowered character.<br>And whats even more annoying is the fact that nobody can understand (or even <br>bother trying to before throwing me a bollicking) why I would want to play
<br>an overly agressive fighter after playing 19 levels of healbot .....</blockquote></span>
<div><br>On a point of pedantry (my favourite type :) ), Diarm is playing a NG fighter, and if you remember correctly you'll remember that he gets fucked out of it when he runs off too, that's why he rarely does anymore. If the lead character isn't Annabelle he sticks close to them, hes a fighter it's what he does. These days he keeps back when Leighs scouting, now me and Joe are invariably the last two in the "marching order" and let me tell you that you're nearly always further ahead than Diarm even if only by a few steps. Brian can also be a bit gung ho, but I remember a few choice words being directed to him at times.
<br><br>I have no problem with you wanting to play a fighter that's why I didn't say anything about it, we do understand and myself and Diarm were wondering how you still do it. But you chose your own actions Conor including getting Sashkia 3 levels ahead of the least experienced of us and rolling a second Cleric, they were all your ideas.
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I simply cannot take the double standards any more, anything that I've done <br>in the last few months, where any of ye have had two ways of looking at a
<br>situation you've opted for the negative angle; every bloody time, both in<br>game and on email. My favourite comment was the one of few weeks ago "I know <br>you didn't say or do anything - but I could get a feeling for where you
<br>wanted us to go".</blockquote></span>
<div><br>Funny but your first sentence will do well enough for my purposes too. Funny how you've done exactly what you accuse us of, you harangue us for not playing smart then you streak off into group of mobs after group of mobs allowing yourself to be surrounded and to hell with the rest of us. You give out to us for running off half dead after a fight but it's ok for you to do it. You give out to us but we can't say anything back to you. Talk about double standards.
<br><br>I've noticed you're never at fault Conor. That must be nice. A couple of "wait up Conors" and "stop racing offs" and all of sudden we're all on your case! Who exactly is always opting for the negative angle here?
<br><br>You seriously need a higher natural armour bonus. :)<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">When I was out of order and levelled Sashkia I tried to make up for it by <br>soloing my way to sixth level with another cleric, but now its ok for you
<br>guys to get further ahead than everyone else and force me into more soloing<br>to get back on a par again - and you know what; I fully expected to take an <br>earful if I did do that.</blockquote></span>
<div><br>So us doing some quests 2-4 levels below us for rep and (incidental, but much appreciated) XP on a night where we arranged to play but not all of us made it is the same as you pugging and gaining 3 levels over the lowest party member? There's one level between us and Leigh now, there's a world of difference between the two and if you tried then you could see that too.
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Now I can understand the spoiling of fun that I seem to have caused, and the<br>frustration that it caused.
<br>But to take the same shite in a dungeon I've never done, with a character a<br>level below you, with my mic muted - that was just barmy. Everyone's just<br>too ready to have a go at me, and that was the straw that broke the camels
<br>back.</blockquote></span>
<div><br>I'm sure I've made this clear earlier but just in case, it's not that you were spoiling it by telling us what was coming up or where to stand or whatever, you were spoiling it by fucking off on your own, you were ruining it (for me) with your continued Leeroy-esque tactics. Doing exactly the same things that you bailed us all out for a few months ago. Again, is it alright for you to do but not for us?
<br> </div><span class="q"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I'm hoping after about 3-4 levels of playing without me, you might be less <br>inclined to jump down my throat for just being at the other end of a modem
<br>trying to play a computer game. I still think its great fun playing with you<br>guys, but I'm not taking this rubbish. Its a game - when you guys stop <br>having fun for a second you make me feel about two feet tall, and you
<br>threaten to log off, go to bed, quit the game (I've heard it all). You guys<br>have all made this stop being fun for me, but I don't see the point in <br>making you all feel like crap more than once.</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>Conor, I do enjoy playing the game with you too but not so much lately. Hopefully, some day you might decide to look at what and how you're playing and try to see how you might be stripping the enjoyment for us. I for one doubt that I have ever made you feel "two feet tall" and I bet that you'd be hard put to find an example for me, however maybe we all need to be a bit more considerate and thoughtful. BTW the key there is "we all need".
<br><br>I hated the way we went through the Taming the Flames quest, and I mean I truly, fucking *hated* it but before now I would have held back in case I offended you. Frankly, I won't put take this crap anymore either. I think there's a way we can all enjoy this game together, but you'll have to be willing to admit and accept that although we can be critical we're not out to get you and look into the possibility that maybe there are things you should change too.
<br> </div><br>Now I know it's hard to tell from that, Conor, but I genuinely have nothing but love for you (man). It's just that it's no fun when you play the way you did last night. <br><br>You can choose to be offended or angry by what I've written here but be aware that you're making a choice in doing so and before you do remember that what I've said is no worse that anything you've levelled at me in your email and mine wasn't intended in a "oh yeah? Well screw you too!" way. It wasn't easy for me to say and isn't intended to make you feel angrier or worse, sometimes I just have to get things off my chest too. Especially these nipple clamps. ;)
<br><br>Anyway, I've spent far too much time on this and I have to go to bed. NN all.<br><br>Mike.<br> </div><br>_______________________________________________<br>ddo mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:ddo@dspsrv.com">
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</div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Leigh Murphy,<br>Højmarken 13, Gevninge, <br>4000 Roskilde, <br>Danmark. <br>(H) + 45 46 36 02 20 (M) + 45 50 59 80 25<br><br>photos <a href="http://www.dspsrv.com/leigh">www.dspsrv.com/leigh
</a><br>Skype: LeighSter<br><br>Master of the DeathSport - Squash.